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Post by NotRumplestiltskin on Feb 2, 2017 5:14:51 GMT
I'm re-watching the show for the first time since I saw it as a kid, and I'm about halfway through s3 at this point. At first I was really jarred by the transition from s2, which was pretty serious and intricate for a show aimed at preteens, to s3, which takes a more Lizzie Mcguire-type approach to the whole premise.
I realized that I've started treating s3 as a totally different show in my head: if I think of it as a spin-off, or a reboot, or possibly just an entirely different show that happens to have a similar premise and cast to s1&s2, it becomes a lot easier to suspend my disbelief and accept it for what it is. When I try to incorporate s3 as a continuation of the first two seasons, though, it's just way too much cognitive dissonance.
Personally, I think I'll always prefer s1&s2 to s3, but I'm slowly developing this thought that they're so different they shouldn't even really be compared. Judged on its own merit, s3 seems like the kind of show I probably would've watched and enjoyed when I was in its target age range. The first two seasons are more interesting to me now, but maybe that just underscores how separate the Fi and Annie eras are.
What do you all think -- is it reasonable to argue that the third season is so different that it can't be compared to the first two, do you think it's impossible to evaluate the two 'eras' separately since they were intended to be parts of the same series, or do you think maybe the show is more cohesive than I've been able to make it? Is it a strength or a weakness that the show's apparent intended audience could change so drastically while leaving most of the cast intact?
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darbme
Junior Member
Posts: 81
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Post by darbme on Feb 2, 2017 7:27:50 GMT
I'm re-watching the show for the first time since I saw it as a kid, and I'm about halfway through s3 at this point. At first I was really jarred by the transition from s2, which was pretty serious and intricate for a show aimed at preteens, to s3, which takes a more Lizzie Mcguire-type approach to the whole premise. I realized that I've started treating s3 as a totally different show in my head: if I think of it as a spin-off, or a reboot, or possibly just an entirely different show that happens to have a similar premise and cast to s1&s2, it becomes a lot easier to suspend my disbelief and accept it for what it is. When I try to incorporate s3 as a continuation of the first two seasons, though, it's just way too much cognitive dissonance. Personally, I think I'll always prefer s1&s2 to s3, but I'm slowly developing this thought that they're so different they shouldn't even really be compared. Judged on its own merit, s3 seems like the kind of show I probably would've watched and enjoyed when I was in its target age range. The first two seasons are more interesting to me now, but maybe that just underscores how separate the Fi and Annie eras are. What do you all think -- is it reasonable to argue that the third season is so different that it can't be compared to the first two, do you think it's impossible to evaluate the two 'eras' separately since they were intended to be parts of the same series, or do you think maybe the show is more cohesive than I've been able to make it? Is it a strength or a weakness that the show's apparent intended audience could change so drastically while leaving most of the cast intact? I'm glad you asked this question. I an unable to not compare S3 to the first 2 seasons or separate them just because I love the characters and I take that with me as I watch, especially through season 3. When season 3 first came out on Disney, I watched mostly for the character development of Mack, Jack, Clu, Carey, , Irene, and I liked Annie as a character also (although of course I sorely missed Fi). Now when I am re-watching Season 3, I take on some "assumptions" that help me appreciate it for what it is. Warning, this may sound a little weird FIRST... I don't think that Fi left Colorado for Seattle to "just live a normal life" (and even if that was her original intent, I don't think she could stay away from the paranormal for very long). Season 3 still shows Annie & Clu using Fi's website and Instagab(bing) with Fi about weird stuff so I think she is still "investigating." I presume that Fi took a look at some of the negative effects her desire to reconnect with her dad is having on some of her family members (Molly "quitting" the tour, leaving her dream behind because of it and also the impact if has on Irene and [uprooting their life in a way to then just go back home] and of course, Jack). So between "Twin" and "Lightning Rod," I think Fi did some maturing and realized that if she wanted to continue the investigation about why her father really died, she was going to have to be somewhere more receptive to that line of inquiry. Hence, she decides to live in Seattle with Aunt Melinda, Rick's sister, who not only has a deep connection with Rick but is more open to the paranormal and may want to get to the bottom of why her brother really died. So the way I see it (consciously or unconsciously), Fi left to reconcile the idea that her family needed a break while she, herself could not stop investigating. As for Molly and Jack, I think Season 1 and Season 2 develops enough of the idea that this Phillips family is genuinely emotionally BROKEN because of Rick's death. All of Molly's indecisions (Rick haunting her in Medium) and running up into obstacles (Fathom), having to make hard choices (ending the tour), and feeling "unreal" (Encore introduction; fear of the record deal; Strange Geometry; Banshee) shows us that she is really going through her own Hell. While Jack has his "role to play" and is playing his (as Fi's protector), his own upset and very real fear that one day he would lose Fi and Molly the same way he lost his dad (Nightmare), he has a hard time protecting both Fi (Banshee) and Molly (Fathom) and keeps running up into walls and blocked doors (Twin). He gets excited about finding his niche in the OSSN but they nearly made his entire family their slaves and only his love with Gabe was strong enough to prevent it from happening. It was Jack that helped get them out of there. So, sorry, I apologize I am rambling but season 3 is kind of a vacation from an early mid-life crisis for the Phillips family. Molly sells the house! In a way, she and Jack and trying to move on and yes this may sound harsh but it is a little easier for them to try to do that without Fi there. So they return to more "normal" things and Molly (the sweetheart she is), takes Annie under her wing and helps her develop her musical talents. We don't get to see Molly's character as much in Season 3 (thats one thing that I am really frustrated with) but when we do, we pick up on the fact that Molly is stressing and as she is trying to live this life "without Rick" or without "feeling Rick" (The Muse; Gone Fishin'), she is struggling with it immensely. In summary, I see season 3 concluding and Fi coming back more determined than ever to discover the truth and now that after the family has had their "break" and found that living that "normal" life did not make them happy and was not their destiny, they all go after the truth about Rick's death, finding out why he died, and eventually bring him back.
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Post by NotRumplestiltskin on Feb 2, 2017 18:01:50 GMT
I'm re-watching the show for the first time since I saw it as a kid, and I'm about halfway through s3 at this point. At first I was really jarred by the transition from s2, which was pretty serious and intricate for a show aimed at preteens, to s3, which takes a more Lizzie Mcguire-type approach to the whole premise. I realized that I've started treating s3 as a totally different show in my head: if I think of it as a spin-off, or a reboot, or possibly just an entirely different show that happens to have a similar premise and cast to s1&s2, it becomes a lot easier to suspend my disbelief and accept it for what it is. When I try to incorporate s3 as a continuation of the first two seasons, though, it's just way too much cognitive dissonance. Personally, I think I'll always prefer s1&s2 to s3, but I'm slowly developing this thought that they're so different they shouldn't even really be compared. Judged on its own merit, s3 seems like the kind of show I probably would've watched and enjoyed when I was in its target age range. The first two seasons are more interesting to me now, but maybe that just underscores how separate the Fi and Annie eras are. What do you all think -- is it reasonable to argue that the third season is so different that it can't be compared to the first two, do you think it's impossible to evaluate the two 'eras' separately since they were intended to be parts of the same series, or do you think maybe the show is more cohesive than I've been able to make it? Is it a strength or a weakness that the show's apparent intended audience could change so drastically while leaving most of the cast intact? I'm glad you asked this question. I an unable to not compare S3 to the first 2 seasons or separate them just because I love the characters and I take that with me as I watch, especially through season 3. When season 3 first came out on Disney, I watched mostly for the character development of Mack, Jack, Clu, Carey, , Irene, and I liked Annie as a character also (although of course I sorely missed Fi). Now when I am re-watching Season 3, I take on some "assumptions" that help me appreciate it for what it is. Warning, this may sound a little weird FIRST... I don't think that Fi left Colorado for Seattle to "just live a normal life" (and even if that was her original intent, I don't think she could stay away from the paranormal for very long). Season 3 still shows Annie & Clu using Fi's website and Instagab(bing) with Fi about weird stuff so I think she is still "investigating." I presume that Fi took a look at some of the negative effects her desire to reconnect with her dad is having on some of her family members (Molly "quitting" the tour, leaving her dream behind because of it and also the impact if has on Irene and [uprooting their life in a way to then just go back home] and of course, Jack). So between "Twin" and "Lightning Rod," I think Fi did some maturing and realized that if she wanted to continue the investigation about why her father really died, she was going to have to be somewhere more receptive to that line of inquiry. Hence, she decides to live in Seattle with Aunt Melinda, Rick's sister, who not only has a deep connection with Rick but is more open to the paranormal and may want to get to the bottom of why her brother really died. So the way I see it (consciously or unconsciously), Fi left to reconcile the idea that her family needed a break while she, herself could not stop investigating. As for Molly and Jack, I think Season 1 and Season 2 develops enough of the idea that this Phillips family is genuinely emotionally BROKEN because of Rick's death. All of Molly's indecisions (Rick haunting her in Medium) and running up into obstacles (Fathom), having to make hard choices (ending the tour), and feeling "unreal" (Encore introduction; fear of the record deal; Strange Geometry; Banshee) shows us that she is really going through her own Hell. While Jack has his "role to play" and is playing his (as Fi's protector), his own upset and very real fear that one day he would lose Fi and Molly the same way he lost his dad (Nightmare), he has a hard time protecting both Fi (Banshee) and Molly (Fathom) and keeps running up into walls and blocked doors (Twin). He gets excited about finding his niche in the OSSN but they nearly made his entire family their slaves and only his love with Gabe was strong enough to prevent it from happening. It was Jack that helped get them out of there. So, sorry, I apologize I am rambling but season 3 is kind of a vacation from an early mid-life crisis for the Phillips family. Molly sells the house! In a way, she and Jack and trying to move on and yes this may sound harsh but it is a little easier for them to try to do that without Fi there. So they return to more "normal" things and Molly (the sweetheart she is), takes Annie under her wing and helps her develop her musical talents. We don't get to see Molly's character as much in Season 3 (thats one thing that I am really frustrated with) but when we do, we pick up on the fact that Molly is stressing and as she is trying to live this life "without Rick" or without "feeling Rick" (The Muse; Gone Fishin'), she is struggling with it immensely. In summary, I see season 3 concluding and Fi coming back more determined than ever to discover the truth and now that after the family has had their "break" and found that living that "normal" life did not make them happy and was not their destiny, they all go after the truth about Rick's death, finding out why he died, and eventually bring him back. Wow, this is a really interesting way to fill in the gap between s2 & s3 and make them seem more continuous. I'm not sure it alleviates all of my annoyances when I try to reconcile s3 with the other two -- s3 has been bugging me so far, for instance; he seems to have lost his serious undercurrents and just become a source of silly comic relief (which is fine, but a big change for a guy who wasn't working through the loss of a spouse/father). But it's definitely a narrative I'll keep in mind while I finish watching the series!
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Post by tzigone on Feb 3, 2017 0:31:52 GMT
This is sort of my thing, too. The depth just seems to be lacking in S3, for the most part, and I cannot conceive of Molly and Jack as the same characters as S1&S2 Molly and Jack. This is particularly true regarding the "brokenness" that darbme mentions. That doesn't just go away. It can't. Particularly in how Molly treats the supernatural. Oh, and there are some continuity bits (forgetting Gabe, house move-in time, etc.) that are bothersome, too. But mostly, it's just that Jack and Molly just are not the same characters as they were to me. The motivations, pains, fears, etc. that we spent two years exploring are just gone. Fi's off-screen, so I can just imagine she's still up to her old tricks trying to achieve her goal (we know Annie consults her), but I can't do that with Molly and Jack.
Also, I don't actively like most of the eps of S3. I mean, they're fine, but not anything I would go to any effort to watch. It's a little too "young" for me in a way that the other two seasons are not. I'd probably have liked it as a kid, but I'm not a kid. Whereas I can like S1 & S2 as a grownup. S1 & S2 inspire a lot of thought in me. I analyze character motivation and emotional strengths and weakness and evaluate decisions as good or bad. I think about how the characters feel and try to put that into words. S3, I might enjoy watching while it's on, but would forget about as soon as the ep is over. Just doesn't have the same kind of meat to it.
I actually do like Annie and sometimes try to think of a way to bring her into my own personal S3, but I can't quite find a role for her. Not one that is needed. She's sort of surplus to requirement in the story that was being told in S1 & S2 (obviously, because the character wasn't conceived of then). To me, her (very positive) relationship with Molly is her biggest facet, but I can't incorporate that into Fi and Molly and increased problems (because Fi is not going to stop with her investigations) without drawing resentment on the character. And Fi's the lead, and I don't have a function for Annie in achieving that goal (bring back dad, save multiple worlds), and I certainly don't want her as an obstacle to that role. I had originally, erroneously, remembered Annie's parents as being skittish about supernatural trouble finding her and wondered if they just offloaded her on Molly. But then I found this this site, and the episodes uploaded here, and saw I was wrong. That might have been interesting and served a story purpose, but was not the case, and I'm not inclined to rewrite good characters as bad, even when doing an AU to S3.
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Post by Rockerbaby on Feb 3, 2017 3:23:25 GMT
I so wish that I could find a way to enjoy S3, but I can't. Knowing that nothing in S3 was ever supposed to happen originally and that Disney made zero effort to keep some of the old plotlines going leaves a very bitter taste in my mouth. Maybe some day I will be able to view S3 as a totally separate show and appreciate it for what it is but not yet. So for now, I fair pretty well with acting like S3 does not exist most of the time.
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darbme
Junior Member
Posts: 81
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Post by darbme on Feb 3, 2017 6:24:32 GMT
This is sort of my thing, too. The depth just seems to be lacking in S3, for the most part, and I cannot conceive of Molly and Jack as the same characters as S1&S2 Molly and Jack. This is particularly true regarding the "brokenness" that darbme mentions. That doesn't just go away. It can't. Particularly in how Molly treats the supernatural. Oh, and there are some continuity bits (forgetting Gabe, house move-in time, etc.) that are bothersome, too. But mostly, it's just that Jack and Molly just are not the same characters as they were to me. The motivations, pains, fears, etc. that we spent two years exploring are just gone. Fi's off-screen, so I can just imagine she's still up to her old tricks trying to achieve her goal (we know Annie consults her), but I can't do that with Molly and Jack. Also, I don't actively like most of the eps of S3. I mean, they're fine, but not anything I would go to any effort to watch. It's a little too "young" for me in a way that the other two seasons are not. I'd probably have liked it as a kid, but I'm not a kid. Whereas I can like S1 & S2 as a grownup. S1 & S2 inspire a lot of thought in me. I analyze character motivation and emotional strengths and weakness and evaluate decisions as good or bad. I think about how the characters feel and try to put that into words. S3, I might enjoy watching while it's on, but would forget about as soon as the ep is over. Just doesn't have the same kind of meat to it. I actually do like Annie and sometimes try to think of a way to bring her into my own personal S3, but I can't quite find a role for her. Not one that is needed. She's sort of surplus to requirement in the story that was being told in S1 & S2 (obviously, because the character wasn't conceived of then). To me, her (very positive) relationship with Molly is her biggest facet, but I can't incorporate that into Fi and Molly and increased problems (because Fi is not going to stop with her investigations) without drawing resentment on the character. And Fi's the lead, and I don't have a function for Annie in achieving that goal (bring back dad, save multiple worlds), and I certainly don't want her as an obstacle to that role. I had originally, erroneously, remembered Annie's parents as being skittish about supernatural trouble finding her and wondered if they just offloaded her on Molly. But then I found this this site, and the episodes uploaded here, and saw I was wrong. That might have been interesting and served a story purpose, but was not the case, and I'm not inclined to rewrite good characters as bad, even when doing an AU to S3. I totally understand how they feel like different shows & different seasons as NotRumplestiltskin argues. I also agree that Molly and Jack seem completely out-of-character. I don't like the storyline changes of course but I also think some of S3 is just sloppy writing. You bring up the non-mention of Gabe and the super fast house change, I don't like that and Irene are hardly ever in it (or at least not in many meaningful ways). I get so invested in the characters during S1 and S2. I've loved Mackenzie for many years and the whole cast has such amazing chemistry with each other. S3 loses a lot of this not because of the actors but the writing. I like Annie and in my own "So Weird book" she is related to James from season 1, so I kind of twist and turn and do a lot of stretching as I've made the story up in my mind along the years. But a lot of times with some S3 stuff, I do ask... What were you thinking? ! So I try to make up for that dissonance by reading into things to fill the gap. I will say that Season 3 doesn't "repeat well." I can watch an episode from S1 or S2 many, many times over (and I HAVE watched them over many times more than i care to admit) but STILL learn something new about the characters and their story every time. Season 3, you just can't, once you see it, it doesn't make me want to run to watch it again. One of the things that makes SW so special is that rewatching is fun.
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Post by estreetbandfan1 on Feb 14, 2017 15:04:15 GMT
I approach it like I do with Two And A Half Men: The Ashton Kutcher Years, as a reboot. All but one of the main cast is there, and the writing direction has changed. So Weird featured a new house, new storylines instead of continuing it's mythology with Rick, and even a new musical direction. While the concept of the show was still there (a teenage girl goes on the road and searches the paranormal), the episodes were much lighter, and nothing like the first two seasons. Rather than dealing with the actual supernatural (banshees, ghosts, spirits), season 3 mainly dealt with just whatever weird thing they could come up with (bees turning into humans, carnivals turning people into acts, locked in detention from years prior, etc). The only episodes I felt stayed true to the original series was Lightening Rod, The Muse, Voodoo, and maybe one or two others.
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Post by thebossapplesauce on Feb 16, 2017 20:48:53 GMT
This is an interesting question and I'm not actually sure how to answer, especially since I'm one of only, like... 4 fans that appreciate season 3. LOL I guess it ultimately depends on which version of me you're talking about. I mean... when I watched the show as a kid, the switch from S2 to S3 was comparable to when I watched Doctor Who for the first time and had two seasons with Rose Tyler, I fell in love with her and her relationship with The Doctor. Then in S3, Martha came along and I was still grieving the loss of Rose so I just hated Martha and her presence on the show. Of course, I kept watching because the stories were still compelling, and I eventually grew to love Martha after having enough time to get over Rose. With So Weird, I have very little memory of actually watching S3 as a kid. I mean, I had a vivid picture in my mind of the Panther with glowing eyes laying next to a pink wall that somehow stuck with me into adulthood, which is ironically how I got back into the show. For some reason, I didn't have many other super specific memories from the first two seasons, nothing that lead me to the right show to rewatch it anyways.
Now as an adult, I guess I just approach it with an open mind. I mean, it's what allowed me to find the show again... it's what introduced me to Alexz Johnson, who is my far one of my favorite musicians and has introduced me to a bunch of other artists I never would have heard about otherwise... not to mention friends I have met within her fanbase. Not to mention friends who have helped me figure out what I really want in life. It's hard to imagine what my life would be like if I went another route and either never gotten back into SW or been closed minded to S3 just because it went a different route. I feel like it would be sort of hypocritical of me to not be openminded enough to appreciate the very part of a show that has actually sort of defined a huge part of my life on such a personal level.
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Post by thebossapplesauce on Oct 5, 2017 3:20:09 GMT
My best friend and I have been binge watching SW in it's entirety on our off days, and this is actually her first time watching the show in it's entirety... we finally got to S3 today and got through Voodoo before I had to leave her place. I gave her a fair warning about how different S3 is when compared to the last two seasons, and how the characters go through some changes. She has approached the third season with an open mind and that seems to have made all the difference for her, considering she actually likes it so far and doesn't hate Annie like a lot of people do.
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Post by tzigone on Oct 14, 2017 3:23:55 GMT
My best friend and I have been binge watching SW in it's entirety on our off days, and this is actually her first time watching the show in it's entirety... we finally got to S3 today and got through Voodoo before I had to leave her place. I gave her a fair warning about how different S3 is when compared to the last two seasons, and how the characters go through some changes. She has approached the third season with an open mind and that seems to have made all the difference for her, considering she actually likes it so far and doesn't hate Annie like a lot of people do. Probably does make a difference. Even more than that, I think binge watching - watching a show all at once without time to stop and analyze between episodes and discuss theories and so on - makes a big difference. For me, at least, I'm much more likely to just "accept" when I haven't spend months trying to figure out what plot/character point is being led up to and then see it all of that thrown out the window. I think I've seen a similar trend in Roswell viewers. You have the group that say season 1-only, because season 2 gave us shifted characterization and bad continuity. The bigger group that say it was going okay through mid-season 2 (when characterization suddenly changed for the worse), some who say it died with late season 2 (when the shocking reveal meant much of the previous season made no sense at all in retrospect), and then some who like the third and final season (with again, nonsensical plot issues). Those who picked up on the show later tend to be more accepting of the entire show where those who tried to figure out where the plot was going when the show originally aired often feel like pulling out their hair when discussing the later episodes.
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Post by thebossapplesauce on Oct 14, 2017 7:51:44 GMT
My best friend and I have been binge watching SW in it's entirety on our off days, and this is actually her first time watching the show in it's entirety... we finally got to S3 today and got through Voodoo before I had to leave her place. I gave her a fair warning about how different S3 is when compared to the last two seasons, and how the characters go through some changes. She has approached the third season with an open mind and that seems to have made all the difference for her, considering she actually likes it so far and doesn't hate Annie like a lot of people do. Probably does make a difference. Even more than that, I think binge watching - watching a show all at once without time to stop and analyze between episodes and discuss theories and so on - makes a big difference. For me, at least, I'm much more likely to just "accept" when I haven't spend months trying to figure out what plot/character point is being led up to and then see it all of that thrown out the window. I think I've seen a similar trend in Roswell viewers. You have the group that say season 1-only, because season 2 gave us shifted characterization and bad continuity. The bigger group that say it was going okay through mid-season 2 (when characterization suddenly changed for the worse), some who say it died with late season 2 (when the shocking reveal meant much of the previous season made no sense at all in retrospect), and then some who like the third and final season (with again, nonsensical plot issues). Those who picked up on the show later tend to be more accepting of the entire show where those who tried to figure out where the plot was going when the show originally aired often feel like pulling out their hair when discussing the later episodes. That is a very interesting theory that I never really considered. I know for me personally, it doesn't make much a difference... at least based on when I got into Doctor Who and ended up hating Martha because she wasn't Rose for at least two or three years until she finally grew on me while I was watching her character show up in Torchwood. LOL
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levi
New Member
Posts: 14
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Post by levi on Jan 5, 2018 20:14:46 GMT
When I was growing up I actually preferred the Annie to Fi episodes because I was actually quite young at the time and I don't know why, but they appealed to me more. Now, as an adult, rewatching the series, I feel good watching all 3 seasons. I do understand that Season 3 is quite different, but I approach it like darbme mentioned, that Fi is just away for the time being to regroup and that she won't stop looking for her father and eventually will bring him back. She was so determined to do it and that's what the writers originally intended, so that's the way it will be. Yes, it would have been great to see the real thing, but they didn't end it in the cliffhanger and I honestly think that it would have been great if they extended it beyond 65 episodes and showed Fi and Annie both in the show. If only Cara wouldn't have left....
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